'Sideways' loading is actually a general issue with a certain class of knots, including both the bowline and figure-8 (i.e., either of the 2 popular knots a climber might use to tie in with will fail catastrophically when sidways loaded). Another point – Merely because another person doesn’t know a particular knot does not make it unsafe. It only takes a minute to sign up. It was not designed (or intended) for life critical applications such as rock climbing. The case went to the court and after that the Germans have done a series of tests on the knot to realize that it can indeed slip under side load, which is why it’s considered unfit for climbing today. This also applies in reverse, such that when a bowline is untied, it leaves no “residual” knot which has the potential to become stuck if pulled through the anchor in a moment of inattention. This knot carries the designating number of #1010 in the Ashley Book of Knots and was invented for maritime purposes and was never intended for climbing contexts. Follow @masasakano Is it really completely safe in all situations and loads, or are there use cases where it may fail? The tying point of a harness is one of the most fundamental point of safety in climbing and is the most frequently tested one. ice climbing, mountaineering, adventure trad), you probably don’t need to make the change. This is troubling to me because someone new to knots might draw the wrong conclusion (bowline is BAD) because of a miss-application (what you document is that sideways loading is BAD, which, really, applies to other knots too). Reply: I had given links to various papers on Bowlines and knots in general. Agreed. My final point is related to point #2 above. Could you edit the title to address this? A competent diligent climber would undertake a partner check BEFORE commencing climbing - to check things such as their tie-in knot. My article is an attempt to condense and summarise this information for the layperson, and I welcome any corrections, inclusions or amendments. My conclusion is as follows. There are other similar wrong use cases, all depending on the knot being able to hold when pulled sideways – which the bowline knot isn’t. The bowline knot is very safe if loaded correctly. Source: An Analysis of the Structure of Bowlines, Mark Gommers . Thanks for the new data! Good information, I have now amended the article to include this. More importantly, I know well, based on my own experience, even the well-set correct Yosemite Bowline can get loose during a course of a day. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. That is, they are cognizant of the fact that their knowledge and skills are entirely correct at all times. With no load it can be untied easily. I recommend that you review the paper on ‘Bowlines’ at this link: But it’s not a perfect world, and although I don’t think people should shy away from perfecting their own knots, many climbers (myself included) wouldn’t be able to check the efficacy of someone else’s bowline variant beyond a shadow of a doubt. Let’s take a look at which bowline variants which have been proven to be stable and secure. I know a couple of “husky” climbers who have used this, including the irrepressible Mike Law in the current incarnation of his climbing career. Unconscious competence; and You mention in your content that I load tested some ‘Bowlines’ – and found them to be in the vicinity of 75% of their unkotted yield strength. I think the issue is that the bowline variants that people generally use are actually a bit shit for reasons stated in the article. A collar (which captures the standing end), and perhaps most importantly, A nipping loop (which is free to compress with application of load), Securing the tail (either by virtue of the knot itself or in conjunction with a Double Overhand AKA Half Fisherman’s), Increasing the number of strands captured by the nipping loop (which increases friction on the tail, as well as increasing the radius of the loop and thereby lessening the stress caused to cordage by sharp bends). I didn’t want to go to the completely general case of loading different types of knots, but I think you can still slip the information about the figure-8 into your answer quite nicely. If you know a single bowline, you can inspect it. This was discovered during an investigation of a fatal fall in Germany in the 1960s. That is, no further tail maneuvers are required to lock down the structure (eg by adding a further ‘stopper / backup’ knot). Wouldn’t tie-in with any of those variants…, Safety incident report involving Scott’s Lock Bowline when snagged: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6773.msg44540#msg44540. If you’re committed to forming that same familiarity with a secure bowline variant, then there is no good reason you shouldn’t. You are just as likely to make a mistake tying a figure 8 knot than with any other 'Bowline'. What is clear, however, is that you should check yourself (and your buddy) before you wreck yourself. The major disadvantage of the Simple Bowline is that lacks the security of the Figure 8, given that it has a tendency to work loose unless kept under constant tension. Remember, folks – climbing is dangerous! The Bowline knot (and its variants) have two advantages over Figure-of-Eight, that is, it is easier to untie, which is handy after the knot is heavily loaded (by falls), and is marginally quicker to tie. 3. By definition, any knot that requires additional tail manoeuvres (e.g. Perhaps it would be good to write more about the bowline variants climbers actually use, as I haven’t seen those above in the wild. There is no load test that has managed to induce jamming. About as strong under ideal circumstances, Can come untied on their own when unloaded. However, there is a significant risk for the knot. As you have correctly pointed out – some ‘Bowlines’ are inherently secure while others are not. I learned to tie a single bowline sailing as a kid by tying a half hitch, and then inverting it. However, some inaccuracies remain – but, given the fact that the subject area of ‘Bowlines’ is incredibly complex – you have written an article that is better than most. The Bowline forms a secure loop that will not jam and is easy to tie and untie. You mentioned this in passing towards the end, but I’ve not heard of it being studied in detail – how vulnerable are the different tie-in knots to misidentification/incorrect tying? Look at vehicle accidents in Australia and around the world – put a human behind the wheel and you have potential for mistakes. Knot for Joining the ropes of different thicknesses. The Bowlines best application is possibly tree or post belays, but even here after moderate loading it can be hard to untie and a better choice would be round turn + 2 half hitches. Also there is no "wrong side" to do it. I respect your input on this but I personally still see relevance in it. Do you realize that you are circulating misinformation into the public domain? For example, if you want to compare particular off-road 4WD (SUV) vehicle against another vehicle, you need to select another 4WD (SUV). It's also easy to tie badly with fatal consequences. Thanks again for your input, it’s certainly welcome! … You are publishing your article to the world via the internet and as such, you need to make sure that the information you convey is accurate (which it is not). I am not convinced (a single seemingly non-scientific experiment does not tell much anyway). Here is my video to demonstrate the point — risk of Yosemite Bowline. “Ah yep looks good”!. Great article Ryan, really enjoyed the read! Bowline can be undone accidentally, especially in a course of a long day. I have done my best to give a laypersons understanding of the need for “inherent security” without labouring the point too much. Although the double bowline (aka bowline on a bight...depends how you tie it) is great with a yosemite backup or double overhand backup, but still harder to visually inspect and much less common than the eight. What are "non-Keplerian" orbits? DS-160 (Online Nonimmigrant Visa Application) asks about travel to other countries/regions. The fact does cast some doubt over its reliability. I have never heard of any quantitative assessment of the knot. It also really does seem to just fall apart with cyclic loading on one of my ropes.

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